Exclusive Interview: "American Heritage Party's" Dan Eby Discusses The Need For Explicitly Christian Party

[jbrett14]

Originally Posted by Joe_Liberty

Have you read Michael's latest, "The Ultimate Blasphemy?" It sounds like you two are talking about the same sort of thing. He concludes by saying the Christian man needs to "get off the couch, fix his purpose, set his face to the fight and do his duty."

Now, he is not specific concerning exactly what that duty is, but given his past history I assume he is talking about putting all things under Christ, including civil government. What do you think he's talking about?

No, I have not read it yet, but I will.

I will not speculate, even after reading, as to what Michael meant, because I am sure we can ask him DIRECTLY. What I THINK is irrelevant, so long as the author is still alive and able to respond himself.

Jonathan Brett

[jbrett14]

Originally Posted by Centurion

Jonathan,

You have asked for biblical instruction on political activism.

The Great Commission of Matthew 28:18-20 (in line with the Dominion Mandate of Gen. 1:26-28) is one of the more profound political commandments in all of scripture, i.e., to disciple and baptize the nations, and to teach them all that Christ has commanded.

I will approach this bit by bit so as not to get lost in our argument. I believe it would benefit all, to examine each statement independently, so we don't take Scripture out of context.

If we assume that your entire post was filled with accuracy, then it would SOUND good. But let's examine your very first statement and look for error. WE wouldn't want to BUILD upon an argument that is founded with error.

Perhaps I am just a nut, but I don't see these two portions of Scripture to be connected AT ALL.

Genesis 1:26-27 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth. And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female.

This is a VERY clear and simple concept. MAN, was created and ALLOWED to reign and be ABOVE all other created creatures, plants, etc. You have incorrectly ADDED to Scripture by saying: "Dominion Mandate" Nowhere in this reference that YOU gave, is their a "mandate" (official instruction or command). The first clue would be that NO MAN existed yet to have given them this ORDER. Rather, allowing Scripture to interpret itself, we see that we were to be left undisturbed by those that are referred to as "OUR". Of course Satan broke this rule, as we know, and he will pay the price.



Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth. Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the world. Amen.

I am sorry, but I see NO correlation with this direct instruction given to the 11 apostles vs. the FACT that MAN was created by God and given authority (dominion) over ALL other creation (animals and plants).

In NO way do I see a connection for man creating a government to dominate the earth as he THINKS, be it a Democracy, Republic, Theocracy, Dictatorship, etc. This is what George Bush does, and look what happens. It looks like, to me anyway, that you are merely trying to find something in the Bible to use to fit YOUR ideas, rather than allow the Bible to interpret itself.

Perhaps someone else can join in and share their thoughts on these verses, as well as the one below.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here.


Jonathan Brett

[Joe_Liberty]

Originally Posted by jbrett14

No, I have not read it yet, but I will.

I will not speculate, even after reading, as to what Michael meant, because I am sure we can ask him DIRECTLY. What I THINK is irrelevant, so long as the author is still alive and able to respond himself.

Jonathan Brett

What do you think our duty is given the circumstances that both you and Michael have emphasized?

[Joe_Liberty]

Originally Posted by jbrett14

his is one reason I personally appreciate the wise words of David Zuniga. He has spoken the most sensible approach to ever have a chance of defeating the current system, in my opinion.

Which is what exactly? I don't know David Zuniga I just skimmed some of his posts and looked at his blog, but I haven't found anything yet that addresses this question

[Joe_Liberty]

Originally Posted by jbrett14

Perhaps someone else can join in and share their thoughts on these verses

I agree with Centurion.

Originally Posted by jbrett14

Genesis 1:26-27 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth. And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female.

This is a VERY clear and simple concept. MAN, was created and ALLOWED to reign and be ABOVE all other created creatures, plants, etc. You have incorrectly ADDED to Scripture by saying: "Dominion Mandate" Nowhere in this reference that YOU gave, is their a "mandate" (official instruction or command). The first clue would be that NO MAN existed yet to have given them this ORDER. Rather, allowing Scripture to interpret itself, we see that we were to be left undisturbed by those that are referred to as "OUR". Of course Satan broke this rule, as we know, and he will pay the price.

In Genesis 1:27 we find that God indeed did create man as proposed in Genesis 1:26. And in 1:28 we discover man's economic role relative to God's creation:

...Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth (Gen. 1:28).

Here we see that man is made to be an economic steward who is responsible to God for his dominion over God's gift to him. Christian men and women (and not civil governments) are God's "spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 2:5).

Originally Posted by jbrett14

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth. Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the world. Amen.

I am sorry, but I see NO correlation with this direct instruction given to the 11 apostles vs. the FACT that MAN was created by God and given authority (dominion) over ALL other creation (animals and plants).

In NO way do I see a connection for man creating a government to dominate the earth

As a priest, man represents the world toward God; he dedicates the world and all that is in it in service to God. In short, man is to keep the world under dominion for the glory of God. In Exodus 19:6, God admonishes, "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation...." Even the last book of the Bible stresses believing man's God-given role as priest and king. In Revelation 1:5-6 believers in heaven sing Christ's praises: "...Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father...." Matthew 28:18-20 is a command to conquer the world for Christ our King, to bring all men and nations under his dominion.

[jbrett14]

Originally Posted by Joe_Liberty

What do you think our duty is given the circumstances that both you and Michael have emphasized?

To lovingly and humbly glorify God in all we do. The first way to do that is to obey the two greatest commandments. Followed by doing what we know is good and pure, in a LOVING way, never a forceful way. The ability to love as Christ loved is VERY powerful. This should be our prayer - to obtain this kind of love that few demonstrate.

What our duty is NOT: To build yet ANOTHER party that WILL fail us, as all men eventually do. Men, as we should learn from history, are not capable of handling power and money very well.

Jonathan Brett

[jbrett14]

Originally Posted by Joe_Liberty

Which is what exactly? I don't know David Zuniga I just skimmed some of his posts and looked at his blog, but I haven't found anything yet that addresses this question

Well, I don't know David either, and I certainly do not want to speak for David. But, in a nutshell - We need to stop feeding (money) this giant evil group of men that would otherwise be powerless.

Election after election after election, Americans KEEP playing THEIR game perfectly. We are completely oblivious to what is going on, which is exactly why their agenda has progressed EVERY year, regardless who is president. Regardless of what the next potential president SAYS he will do.

Even IF the next candidate WERE genuine and MEANT what he said, he would be powerless once elected. His control would only be as much as they allow him. He would soon give in, accept the millions and go along with the agenda, or, IF he were a true righteous man, he would be killed for doing what he knows is the right thing to do.

We can't beat them through elections because they do not follow the rules of law, nor are they UNDER the president. The president, contrary to the dumbing down of Americans, is powerless, to the degree of overiding their NWO agenda.

The only possible way of beating them, is to stop feeding them. Unless of course, God himself wiped them out. But I don't know why God would do this, given the complacency and apathy of Christians in general. Let's not forget what the Bible CLEARLY teaches.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all evils...

Jonathan Brett

[David M Zuniga]

Joe Liberty,

I am here to represent myself so that my acolyte Jonathan does not have to!

My thesis is going to be laid out in my upcoming book This Bloodless Liberty, which I describe just a bit on the American Glasnost blog. But in a nutshell, the thesis is that we may be witnessing the early stages of a reformation of the Church that will dwarf the last one in Europe 500 years ago. IF the Lord is pleased to send reformation to His Church, against all odds, the practical aspects of reformation in America today will be seen in three concrete actions by the men of the Church:

1) they will learn the truth about government corruption, see the mechanism of its support (the IRS scam), and become principled Nontaxpayers. In other words, millions more men will take part in the financial embargo of America's domestic enemy operating in Washington DC;

2) they will leave off their pew-warming in their happy-clappy megachurch with all its programs and corporate staff, and they will join just a few other men in simple, separate, deliberate living before the face of our King -- planting and watering more organic bodies of Christ in neighborhoods, with no 501c3 corporations, no 'professional staff', and no big buildings and budgets. I am not speaking merely of house churches; they're not the only answer. But the house church IS the New Testament model, it IS the most popular model worldwide, it is the hardest kind of body for the enemy to attack, and it does not fall prey to institutional accretions and programs. To do a small church right demands overseers and deacons like those Paul describes to Timothy. There are millions of such men in America today...why are they still sitting in a pew looking at the back of 450 heads while a trained orator bloviates for an hour and a "worship team" practices its musical paces?

3) they will take direct responsibility for the training of their sons and daughters, and will act as stalwart patriarchs in the lives of their grandchildren as well, assuring that Jesus Christ is the reigning Lord in at least the next two generations. They will do this by eventually teaching academic things (theology, economics, government, law) to their sons themselves after their sons are 10-12 years old. They will do this by teaching their sons to WORK in many different areas: building things, repairing things, working the land, running a shop, etc. And they will have their wives teach their daughters many good things, also, as is the model in Titus.

These men must first quit their corporate cubicle, and must train themselves; there are YEARS of reading and study for most American men to do. I find that young fathers with babies are more than willing to study if they're shown where to begin, and given a reading list. By the time his first 'fighting-age' son is ready, a man is ready to train him. And then family reformation begins.

In fits and starts, to be sure. Imperfectly, to be sure.

But reformation begins.

www.americanglasnost.blogspot.com

[jbrett14]

Originally Posted by Joe_Liberty

I agree with Centurion.


Matthew 28:18-20 is a command to conquer the world for Christ our King, to bring all men and nations under his dominion.

Well, that would mean that at least TWO people have ADDED to Scripture.

"CONQUER" the world????? Hardly.

This very thought is contrary to the ENTIRE teachings of Christ Himself.

Re-read the Gospels, brother. You will CLEARLY see a life of being the OPPOSITE of a conquerer.

The commision was to tell the inhabited earth of the GOOD NEWS that people would have been unaware of. Remember, they didn't have TV, radio, or internet to get their NEWS. This required the work of the CHOSEN apostles while filled with the Holy Spirit. THEY were the TV, radio, and internet of their generation.

Not sure why one would twist Scripture and not just read it for what it is? Forget about "conquering", just obey the two greatest commandments, and you will see firsthand how this has more of an impact than ANY type of "conquering" (force). And that is a promise, based on the Bible.

Jonathan Brett

[David M Zuniga]

Ahhh, there you go, my brother. Well said!

Men want to go to war in the realm they can see, so that they may avoid the war in higher places, where no man can see; where men's power fails them!

Our King has won the only war worth winning. Our Champion gained the only office worth following, so we rightly call Him our KING. But His program, as I just described, is not military (though it has a martial aspect) and it is not political (though it will re-define politics in our grandchildren's lifetimes).

What we must learn to say, and to believe with all our hearts, is

Jesus Christ is King and Lord!

Let the world of wicked men tremble and fall apart at that reality, as it did once before in history. Let the Name of Jesus be lifted up in the hearts of His people, rather than mere empty paeans sung "in church".

Let us not "attend" church; only let us BE the Church...and the world will see the King!