American Hiroshima

[exmarine]

The following link is an interview about the high probability of a nuclear terrorist attack on U.S. soil. I do not believe this is just a nutty conspiracy theory. Our own government has stated the threat is very real, and can anyone doubt the terrorists' ability to smuggle such weapons into our country? In addition, a good portion of the information in the interview is verifiable, e.g. statements by Cheney, Scheuer, Ridge, and the fact that Pakistani scientist Khan passed nuclear secrets, etc., as these are now in the public domain. Does anyone doubt that an Islamist with the know-how to make a nuke (Dr. Khan) would pass that info on to other islamists? Khan aside, does anyone doubt that Bin Laden has the means and the money to purchase and maintain small nukes from the black market? Can we afford to doubt it?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46127

Couple the threat (which is real regardless of whether the nukes are now in the U.S. or not) with the fact that there are ZERO civil defense programs for U.S. citizens. What does that say about how much the government cares for its citizens? What does the open border say about how much the government cares for its citizens? Anyone who expects Bush or the Government to protect them is living in an alternate reality.

A nuclear attack is survivable, even if several cities are hit simultaneiously. Consider the demonstrated inability of the Government to deal with the crisis in one medium sized city - New Orleans. I noticed last night that they are not allowing people at the Convention Center to walk out of the city if they wish to (and there is a way out). Meanwhile, those people exist in squalid conditions with dead bodies lying around, etc.

It is because of the nature of the threat (and the threat is irrefutably real even without the Williams' information), and a matter of national survival, that I advocate issuing an immediate ultimatum to the Islamists: Use a nuke in the U.S. - kiss Mecca, Medina, theran, Damascus good-bye! M.A.D. - it works. Just one nuclear submarine could obliterate all of these. I firmly believe that Mecca is the Achilles Heal of these satanic terrorists. It is a sine qua non element in 2 of the 5 pillars of Islam. Think about it the psychology of it: If Allah could not stop the Great Satan from destroying his holiest site, then how powerful is Allah?

I really don't care is more Islamists hate us, and I really don't care about hurt feelings and politically correct sensitivities. This is about survival and self-defense.

Notice in the article that the FBI does not allow searches of mosques... Is that suicidal or what? There is zero doubt in my military mind that these mosques house a fifth column here.

Call me looney, call me paranoid, but don't call me unprepared, because I will be.

[TimV]

and a matter of national survival, that I advocate issuing an immediate ultimatum to the Islamists: Use a nuke in the U.S. - kiss Mecca, Medina, theran, Damascus good-bye! M.A.D. - it works.

Damascus as well? You are a nut. Syria is a Ba'athist state. The founder of the Ba'ath movement was a Christian, which is why Syria is secular. There was trouble with the Muslim Brotherhood (IIRC around about 1980) and Syrian government forces surrounded the area of their power base and massacred them by the thousands. Christians are allowed to worship freely in Syria. The ruling tribal group even celebrates Christmas and Ascension Day. If ever we had two natural allies in the Mideast it was Syria and Iraq under Saddam. Not that those two states were/are run by Angels, but we don't need nut jobs like you and our little president trying to work up passions against Syria, especially given royal mess that was made of Iraq.

[exmarine]

Damascus as well? You are a nut. Syria is a Ba'athist state. The founder of the Ba'ath movement was a Christian, which is why Syria is secular. There was trouble with the Muslim Brotherhood (IIRC around about 1980) and Syrian government forces surrounded the area of their power base and massacred them by the thousands. Christians are allowed to worship freely in Syria. The ruling tribal group even celebrates Christmas and Ascension Day. If ever we had two natural allies in the Mideast it was Syria and Iraq under Saddam. Not that those two states were/are run by Angels, but we don't need nut jobs like you and our little president trying to work up passions against Syria, especially given royal mess that was made of Iraq.

Syria is a terrorist state. Period. That is no secret - it on the U.S. government terrorist list. Moreoever, insurgents from Syria are currently killing our troops in Iraq. Bush himself said after 911 that any state that harbors terrorists is our enemy. Syria fits that bill in spades. They are supports and harborors of a variety of known terrorists organizations. Hafez Assad was a murdering tyrant.

Here is a link to a U.S. government report where you can read for yourself:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31119.pdf

Besides, this has nothing to do with the thesis of the article.

[TimV]

Ah, yes. Your thesis.

Think about it the psychology of it: If Allah could not stop the Great Satan from destroying his holiest site, then how powerful is Allah?

Well, maybe we should nuke Tel Aviv! Then those Jews will know that they should worship Christ, who is the God of the Old Testament, rather than what they worship wrongly.

And there's that shrine in Japan, Tibet, etc.. That ought to lots of people over to our way of thinking by nuking those as well.

[TimV]

The nuclear weapons were not contained solely in Afghanistan. Al-Qaida laboratories were established in the Balkans, Sudan, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and even places like Myanmar. A number of these weapons have been forward deployed to Mexico and the U.S.

Another guy walking around with tin foil under his hat to stop government rays. I loved the part where he says this:

Such information can be obtained by any journalist with a telephone, a computer, and a library card.

Only an irresponsible Christian Zionist tabloid like WND would have given this guy any credence.

[exmarine]

Ah, yes. Your thesis.

Well, maybe we should nuke Tel Aviv! Then those Jews will know that they should worship Christ, who is the God of the Old Testament, rather than what they worship wrongly.

And there's that shrine in Japan, Tibet, etc.. That ought to lots of people over to our way of thinking by nuking those as well.


Jews and Japanese aren't trying to destroy America, Islamists are. Any objective (read: sane) person reading my thread will understand. I really am not interested in your views, and I will not respond to you any further on this thread.

Go stink up someone else's thread.

[Mosaics]

Ouch......

[GovernmentIsDangerous]

Cheney wants to invade Iran. What will it take for Americans to support this?

[TimV]

Cheney wants to invade Iran. What will it take for Americans to support this?

No one wins a war against Iran. Americans would have supported it two years ago, and it would have been ten times worse (literally) than our fiasco in Iraq, but with bush and Co. shown to be either liars or incompetent in Iraq, and this huge disaster in the Gulf area, the Iranians can just thumb their noses at us and consolidate their influence in the Mideast.

[exmarine]

Cheney wants to invade Iran. What will it take for Americans to support this?

First, let me say that I don't support nation building. I don't support being the world's policeman. I don't support Bush's policy of "spreading freedom" - that's just a meaningless sound bite as far as I'm concerned. I don't buy for a minute that nations without a belief in the true LORD can have freedom.

"Now, the LORD is the Spirit. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom." 2Cor 3:17

No Jesus, No Freedom.

I also believe in avoiding foreign entanglements as much as possible. Of course, we are in a war for our survival whether we want it or not.

All that being said, Iran is definitely one of the two main centers of Islamic terrorism. The other one is Saudi Arabia -- our putative friend! -- who is responsible in a big way for spreading the Wahab brand of Islam around the world (including here to the United States). The Saudi Royal Family and Wahab Islam go back a long way. We know that 15 of the 19 murdering satan worshippers on 911 were from Saudi, and Osama himself is a Saudi.

In any case, we are already stretched thin and our armed forces are being worked to exhaustion from where I sit. Invade Iran? I don't see how it can be done without bringing back the draft.

Last year, I went to Israel and I was on top of the temple mount. I saw both the Mosque of Omar (Dome of the Rock) and the Al-Aqsa mosques. The Dome of the Rock has some very strange demonic-looking etchings on its facade. Our Messianic jewish tour guide pointed to it and said: "This is where they come to worship Satan." He was exactly right. All of the world's religions boil down to two basic choices: There is Jesus Christ, and all of the remaining religions are satanic. Simple as that.

I have no problem being respectful to people of other religions on a personal level - everyone needs Jesus. But when one religion becomes so twisted and vile as to attempt to annihilate my country and any other country that will not convert to their religion, that religion has forfeited its right to exist as far as I'm concerned.

Around the world right now, there are many wars and conflicts raging because of Islam: Kashmir, Indonesia, Philippines, Sudan, Afghanistan, Algeria, Nigeria, Israel, Chechnya, Kosovo (where the muslims are burning churches - these are the same people Clinton sided with in attacking Serbia). But, hey, Islam is peace! (/sarcasm off)

[GovernmentIsDangerous]

No one wins a war against Iran. Americans would have supported it two years ago, and it would have been ten times worse (literally) than our fiasco in Iraq, but with bush and Co. shown to be either liars or incompetent in Iraq, and this huge disaster in the Gulf area, the Iranians can just thumb their noses at us and consolidate their influence in the Mideast.

No one will win in the war in Iraq either, Bush and Co don't really want to win. Just like Vietnam.

[TimV]

"This is where they come to worship Satan." He was exactly right. All of the world's religions boil down to two basic choices: There is Jesus Christ, and all of the remaining religions are satanic. Simple as that.

Just for the record, does that list include Judaism?

[exmarine]

No one will win in the war in Iraq either, Bush and Co don't really want to win. Just like Vietnam.

"Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is thte antichrist - he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also." 1Jn 2:22-23

The bible is clear on that.

The bible is also clear that "all of Israel will be saved" on the last day. (Ro. 11:25). Whoever is left in Israel when the Lord returns will be saved.

"And I will pour out on the house off David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look in me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an ony child, and grieve bitterly for him as one greieves for a firstborn son." Zech. 12:10

"On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity." Zech. 13:1

God has a plan for Israel. The "inhabitants of Jerusalem" means just that - the inhabitants of Jerusalem. The House of David means just that - the house of David.

The Holocaust, and the inaction and even complicity of the churches in Germany. In fact, most churches in Germany supported Hitler. TThe word "ICHABOD" comes to mind.

[TimV]

So if I understand your world view, Jews will be saved (what's left of them) at the end, but for now those Jews who don't convert to Christianity are Satan worshippers.

[exmarine]

So if I understand your world view, Jews will be saved (what's left of them) at the end, but for now those Jews who don't convert to Christianity are Satan worshippers.

I posted the verse from 1John. Let the Word of God speak for itself.

[h-bomb]

I posted the verse from 1John. Let the Word of God speak for itself.

why does everyone hate the other
Oh the Protestants hate the Catholics,
and the Catholics hate the Protestants,
and the Hindus hate the Moslems
and everybody hates the Jews.

[exmarine]

why does everyone hate the other
Oh the Protestants hate the Catholics,
and the Catholics hate the Protestants,
and the Hindus hate the Moslems
and everybody hates the Jews.

Not everybody. There are a few of us who do not. I love the Jewish people. My Savior was Jewish, from the line of King David, tribe of Judah. I am merely grafted in. God is preserving a remnant for himself. I went to Israel and I saw the hunger and longing in the people.

Let the following scripture be a warning for Christians who speak ill of the Jewish people:

"If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." Romans 11:17ff [emphasis mind]

However, the thesis of this thread is not really about Israel at all...I wish people would stick to the topic of the thread or refrain from posting.

[h-bomb]

you are right we are off subject :confused:
Why a natural disaster became a man-made debacle--and what this catastrophe says about our rescue capabilities four years after 9/11 .
That is what we should be asking. We should not be looking for goverment to solve our problems, we are Americans. We can reach out and help ourselves, give to the Red Cross, give to food banks but give.
Remember we are one nation under God. ;)

[endangered]

Call me looney, call me paranoid, but don't call me unprepared, because I will be.

If I follow this, you are saying that a nuclear attack is coming to a city near you and you are going to be your own civil defense.

I have seen quite a lot about surviving a nuclear attack. Are you stock pilling all this stuff in a Y2K fashion? This is one of those things I am just not too sure about from a scriptural viewpoint.

How can you reconcile with this passage?

Mat 6:31 Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


We are living in the days of wars and rumors of wars.


(Mat 24:6) And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.

(Mar 13:7) And when ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars, be not troubled: these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.

(Luk 21:9) And when ye shall hear of wars and tumults, be not terrified: for these things must needs come to pass first; but the end is not immediately.

See that ye be not troubled

be not troubled

be not terrified

I wonder if Noah took life jackets.

[exmarine]

If I follow this, you are saying that a nuclear attack is coming to a city near you and you are going to be your own civil defense.

I have seen quite a lot about surviving a nuclear attack. Are you stock pilling all this stuff in a Y2K fashion? This is one of those things I am just not too sure about from a scriptural viewpoint.

How can you reconcile with this passage?

Mat 6:31 Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.



If we use your interpretation of that scripture, then we also should not save for our retirement, or buy life insurance or health insurance.

God provided us with resources that we should use for our well-being, survival and self-defense. Trust and rely on God, but use the resources He gave us.

Prov. 6:6-8 Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, Provideth her meat in the summer, [and] gathereth her food in the harvest.

[h-bomb]

most of the time I agree with some of what you said but the way you express it leads people to think that your just crazy. WHAT ARE YOU GETTING AT.. are you trying to say we should get back to nature or are you saying that we are just going to kill each other. are you a part of some cult or are you just confused about human nature.

[exmarine]

most of the time I agree with some of what you said but the way you express it leads people to think that your just crazy. WHAT ARE YOU GETTING AT.. are you trying to say we should get back to nature or are you saying that we are just going to kill each other. are you a part of some cult or are you just confused about human nature.

You seem to have a real problem staying on topic in any of these threads. Please stop reading things into this thread and just read what I wrote in the intro of this thread. What I said was quite straightforward. FACT: The odds of a nuclear attack by terrorists on American cities is very high -- at least according to the evidence and what officials in our own government are saying, and especially in the absence of the issuance of an ultimatum (M.A.D.) by our government. The terrorists have struck once and everyone believes they are going to strike again and again with the most destructive means they can find -- we are in a war for our survival whether you want to believe it or not.

Here is another FACT that I offer for your personal edification: Those who are not prepared for a disaster will suffer the most (as New Orleans clearly illlustrates).

Cult? Haha. What do you think -- I'm going to don my cammies and a backpack and trudge off into the wilderness with my wife and a bible, and live on wild locusts and honey? Haha.

No, I do simple practical common sense things, as everyone should who accepts reality. What do you do to prepare for a disaster? Do you depend upon the government to protect you? Do you have any water or food to last for at least a couple of weeks? You saw the chaos in New Orleans -- Do you have the means to protect your home, yourself and your family in the event that lawlessness follows a terrorist strike? Do you have a stock of potassium iodide? (if you don't know what that is, look it up on the internet).

I answered your question and showed you that preparing for a disaster is quite biblical. It's your choice.

[h-bomb]

"The Lord Is at Hand"

"If Christians of the first generation assumed that theirs was the generation that would witness the second coming, those of later generations have learned to be more cautious.... Each Christian generation…should live as though it might be the last one, while bearing in mind that Christians in the remote future may look back on the first 2000 years AD as the early period of church history. The second coming of Christ remains the hope of his people, as it is also the hope of the world (without the world's necessarily being aware of this); but its timing is not of the essence of the hope.

"If one asks what, in that case, is to be made of the NT [New Testament] assurance that the Lord is at hand, an answer may be found in a sermon entitled ‘Waiting for Christ’ by the 19th-century English preacher John Henry Newman. He pointed out that, before Christ's first coming, the course of time ran straight toward that event, but that since then the course of time runs alongside his second coming, on its brink. If it ran straight toward it, it would immediately run into it; but as it is, the great event is always at hand throughout the present era. The course of time will one day merge in the presence or parousia of Christ. If reckoned in terms of the succession of years, final salvation is nearer now than when Christians first believed; but personally, Christ is not nearer now than he was in NT times, and he is as near now as he will be when he returns.

"There are times when the partition between his presence now and his coming parousia becomes paper thin; one day it will disappear completely and this mortal life will be swallowed up in the eternal order….

"For each believer the partition disappears in the moment of death; at the last advent it will disappear on a universal scale"