…Because They Are Not Americans…

[TheGeneral]

It’s hard to articulate my excitement in watching this gentleman respond to my words in a way that indicated that the “prism” had been slightly but significantly “turned” for him and that he now saw the white light separate into its respective and brilliant colors. My bet is that, like a growing number of other men and women in our land, he will never see white light again.

Link to full article:
http://www.theamericanview.com/index.php?id=380

[salinaspaul]

This was a pretty good read - it's hard to imagine that being true... but if they are looking out for the best interests of the world conglomerate, and NOT for the sovereignty of these United States, then what else could they be but one-worlders? There is another term I'm trying to remember, but I can't...

[softwarelaw]

Well said Mr. Peroutka, our leaders simply are not Americans. Their adherence to the international control separates our elected leaders from Americans.

[Mike]

"AMERICA BETRAYED"
Thu Oct 28, 2004 00:28
63.189.168.22


"AMERICA BETRAYED"-Brotherhood Of Death-Crimes Of Corporate High Treason"..Discover the TRUTH! Get insight into the soon coming martial law! Nazi Germany now being used as a prototype in America. The origin of the O.S., O.S.S., C.I.A., and Skull and Bones which is nothing less than a BLACK Lodge Of Freemasonry! The oil elite, terror, Bin Laden AND 9/11 connection ! Please check this out.
Read the first 4 chapters. I have this printed out in book
form if any would like to share this...The book is not
available as it was ordered pulled and burned by THE CARLYLE GROUP 6 months after publication ! Americans terrorized into submission "planned" for New World Order Takeover.

http://universitypress.info/AmericaBetrayed.html

[Mike]

Replies.... (AvenueOfLight@netzero.com)

[hvhart]

A good article except for the honoring of Capt. Henry Wirz, CSA, the commandant of the Andersonville Prison, a Confederate death camp for thousands of Union prisoners of War. After the Civil War, Wirz deserved to be hanged as much as the Nazi leaders and the Japanese warlords after WWII. If the Constitution Party is to come any closer to winning an election than they did in 2004, we must find better "martyrs."

OK, what's the lame, pin-headed excuse why you think Wirz is a hero? What possible miscarriage of justice would allow such a monster to live, after he supervisied the starvation, dehydration, and death by disease of thousands of prisoners.

Get Real! The entire Confederate cause was unCONSTITUTIONal!
What will you say when Mexifornia votes to secede from the Union?

See the movie, "The Great Raid." Camp Cabanatuan is the WWII equivalent of Andersonville.

You are right, most of the currrent Washington crowd are not Americans. They are traitors. They deserve the same fate as Wirz, which would be a much better pretense for the article.

Try again, Peroutka.

[ebaldy]

I wish I had said that. "American" is a state of mind!

[Jaime]

To hvhart:

How much do you know about Andersonville?

Is all you know from the movie?
Did you know that the guards and the POWs all ate the same rations?
Did you know that a Union witnesses was an [Union] deserter and perjurer?
Did you know that dates were changed so that Wirz be placed in command at the time of the alleged crimes?
Did you know that, as war strategy, that Lincoln stopped all soldier exchanges to make the South spend resources on POWs? And that included stopping all medical supplies to help the Union POWs?

Why don't you do a little study on what really happened in the trial? Think scapegoat. And while you are at it, research the Elmira POW camp (in New York) if you really want to know what war crimes are. Hint, it is nicknamed Hellmira. And there are other Northern POW camps where war crimes were committed against the Confederate soldiers.

[TimV]

The book is not
available as it was ordered pulled and burned by THE CARLYLE GROUP 6 months after publication !

They can't get me, I've got aluminum foil under my hat.

[exmarine]

A good article except for the honoring of Capt. Henry Wirz, CSA, the commandant of the Andersonville Prison, a Confederate death camp for thousands of Union prisoners of War. After the Civil War, Wirz deserved to be hanged as much as the Nazi leaders and the Japanese warlords after WWII. If the Constitution Party is to come any closer to winning an election than they did in 2004, we must find better "martyrs."

OK, what's the lame, pin-headed excuse why you think Wirz is a hero? What possible miscarriage of justice would allow such a monster to live, after he supervisied the starvation, dehydration, and death by disease of thousands of prisoners.

Get Real! The entire Confederate cause was unCONSTITUTIONal!
What will you say when Mexifornia votes to secede from the Union?

See the movie, "The Great Raid." Camp Cabanatuan is the WWII equivalent of Andersonville.

You are right, most of the currrent Washington crowd are not Americans. They are traitors. They deserve the same fate as Wirz, which would be a much better pretense for the article.

Try again, Peroutka.

You should know better than to believe the popular version of any historical event or era. The winners usually control the history which is then revised. For example, popular history now teaches that our founding fathers were all deists or atheists - a lie! But America's Christian heritage must be erased so that the God-hating subversives who are trying to destroy Ameica can succeed.

Go to the following link to read a PRIMARY SOURCE account of Wirz's trial and execution. Quite obviously, charges against Wirz were trumped up. They even tried to manufacture a conspiracy. The man was used a scapegoat and he was railroaded without a doubt. He was guilty before he ever entered the courtroom. FACT: The Union blockaded the South and the South could not even feed their own soldiers (ever hear of Lee's Scarecrows?) Do you suppose they could feed prisoners? FACT: The North refused prisoner exchanges. There is plenty of blame to go around for Andersonville!

Also, we could discuss the putrid conditions at some northern prisons.

http://www.geocities.com/cmp_csa/Defense_of_Wirz.html

[rimchamp77]

Right idea - wrong analogy. The idea that God advocates exclusivity is ridiculous! God wants to include as many as possible into the kingdom of heaven. Promoting zenophobic immigration policies and scapegoating "them" isn't what makes us "american" [north american as those in the rest of the hemisphere call us].
Our leaders are not patriots because their policies don't promote the general welfare of the citizen taxpayers - as godly people entrusted with leadership would. They promote consumerism over stewardship of god's gifts. The promote the interests of large corporate contributors over the welfare of the working citizens of this country. We have a military budget based not on real defense interests but on foreign intervention. We have had over 30 years to develop a rational energy policy and sources that don't leave our citizenry dependent on foreign supplies and haven't done diddly. Our country from the early 19th century onward has been guilty of promoting consumerism that has wasted our vast god given natural bounty - with no thought beyond the next quarterly statement. We have a drug policy that is based exclusively on political power and control. Initially the drugs banned were based exclusively on the political power of the users. The current drug policy has no basis - or pretense - of scientific legitimacy and only serves to increase governmental power and reduce access to medications - while increasing profits for those in the drug business [who contribute heavily to political leaders].
We should be a beacon of hope in a godless world. Instead we are the promoter of every irresponsible misuse of god's bounty and oppression of god's children only occasionally designating a former client [yes, we created Al Qaida with US tax dollars and funds from trafficking in arbitarily banned drugs] as "the enemy". Those enemies are only ruses for justifying more government control over unruly citizenry - like myself [and eventually any who speak out against injustice and lies].

[TimV]

Every one's got an opinion, but few people bother to check sources.

In the US Civil War the physical conditions in the prison camps of both the US and Confederate states were usually far worse than at Auschwitz. Perhaps the worst were at the Confederate Camp Fort Sumter, at Andersonville, Georgia, which in August 1864 held about 33,000 prisoners packed into 26 acres of land - an average of 34 square feet per prisoner, perhaps twice the size of a grave plot, per man. There was no shelter other than pup tents, and what other shelter the prisoners could rig up from sticks, blankets and bits of clothing. Contemporary photographs of the camp are appalling. There were no sanitary facilities, other than a stream running through the middle of the camp, which served both for a latrine and for drinking water for the camp. Rations for the Confederate Army itself were only slightly above starvation level; those for the Union POWs at Andersonville far less, and the pictures of the skin-and-bones survivors resemble those of the survivors of the German Concentration camps. And yet, of the 45,000 prisoners who passed through Andersonville, 32,000 survived - a death rate of 29% and a survival rate of slightly over 71%, as compared to a death rate of over 80% and a 16.7% survival rate at Auschwitz, whose physical facilities, although horrible, were substantially better than at Andersonville.

(This is not to suggest that the Union prison camps for Confederate POWs were all that much better - at the worst one, at Elmira, New York, the survival rate was 76%. Nor was Andersonville the worst Southern camp in terms of mortality rates; the camp at Salisbury, North Carolina had a survival rate of only 64%) For the above figures, see James M. McPherson, Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (Ballantine Books, 1989, paperback ed.) at 796-7, as well as the sources produced by a Google search.

[exmarine]

Right idea - wrong analogy. The idea that God advocates exclusivity is ridiculous! God wants to include as many as possible into the kingdom of heaven. Promoting zenophobic immigration policies and scapegoating "them" isn't what makes us "american" [north american as those in the rest of the hemisphere call us].

So, it's okay to break the law? It's okay for the President to ignore his oath to the U.S. Constitution? It's okay to allow our country to be flooded with people who have no respect for our laws, our Constitution, our language or our heritage? It's okay to allow invading criminals to rape, steal from and murder our citizens? It's okay to have rampant drug smuggling and the trampling and destruction of private American property on the border? It's okay that our hospitals, schools and social services are stretched to their breaking points and that American taxpayers are bearing the brunt (is forced charity still charity)? It's okay to allow horrible diseases to be introduced into the populatoin (chagas, resistent TB strain, etc. etc.)? It's okay that middle eastern terrorists will use our southern border to sneak into the country to attack us? It's okay to leave the border wide open in a time of war? It's okay for our leaders to suck up to a third world gangster country instead of doing the right thing which would be to apply pressure on the corrupt Mexican government to take care of its own citizens?

I'm sure you must agree that none of the above are okay.

This isn't about scapegoating at all -- its about preserving the America our founding fathers established on this continent. The fact is that the illegals coming into this country are not Americans. They are invaders who have no respect for our laws. And, lo and behold, we see in a recent survey that 40% of Mexican citizens want to come here and live.

This is one taxpayer who objects and demands something be done!

[RBPrince]

I do not know enough of the story of the Confederate captain to tender a response or statement as regarding his offense, or the possibility of a trumped up charge--but the explanations that I have heard seem quite reasonable, knowing our revisionist educational system these days.

But, as to the "Unamerican" status of many of our leaders, that one just about kicked me in the teeth. To someone who is a lover of the beautiful history of our country, I find it hard to accept the idea that ANY of our leaders could be that. I must admit, having seen what I have of John Kerry, I find that easily acceptable. But, having read the premise of Mr. Peroutka's thoughts--kicked in the teeth or not--he is not exactly barking up the wrong tree. Mr. Peroutka may be going slightly "over the top," but he is certainly not off the beaten path of the truth in this regard. Our leaders are more interested in politics and fanfare than they are truth, God, or what is truly best for this country. Yesterday, when Bush spoke of praying for the South, it made my stomach turn. I believe in prayer, with all of my being, but I remember how peaceful those words sounded when he said them concerning 911. Now, after seeing what else Mr. Bush has done, it made me think, "Okay. Play the religious card again..."

I love God. I love my country. I love my family. I hate the ideas of separation of church and state. I hate the ideas of socialistic policy that have captivated America. I detest the governmental controls that have been put into place in the last century. We need sweeping change. And we need it NOW.

[dmetzger]

The idea that those who do not subscribe to truly American ideas as not being American is interesting. I guess from the standpoint of membership, one could say that a member ceases to be a member of an organization when they no longer accept the bylaws, rules and regs of that organization. However, when it comes to the USA and accepting the Consitution, it is much easier to see how leaders stand on the issues than the majority of the population. Since many do not know what they think as they are brain-washed, deceived, ignorant, or just don't care, it might be a hard sell to convince them of the need for a strict, Consitutional adherance. So, even thought I voted for Peroutka and Baldwin, I think that most people still operate under the mistaken notion that there is a difference in the major political parties, which would make it even more difficult to convince them. So the question is, who is hearing this message and what would be the desired response? The main thrust of the Constitution Party is based upon God's truth, which is the only Truth, and we know that the majority of people will not receive His truth. People don't think anymore, they move like sheep and are thusly controlled by the poweres that be.

[Jaime]

Andersonville was suffering the same result from attrition as everyone around. Yeah, the Confederates were looking really plump compared to the "skin-and-bones survivors." Are you suggesting that the treatment of Union POWs in Andersonville similar to prisioners in Nazi concentration camps? Nonsense.

In New York food was plentiful and blankets were available to supply all Confederate POWs without causing New Yorkers any inconveniences. And so many Confederate POWs died of starvation and cold because those items were witheld PURPOSELY. War crimes were committed in Elmira.

[h-bomb]

The idea that those who do not subscribe to truly American ideas as not being American is interesting. I guess from the standpoint of membership, one could say that a member ceases to be a member of an organization when they no longer accept the bylaws, rules and regs of that organization. However, when it comes to the USA and accepting the Consitution, it is much easier to see how leaders stand on the issues than the majority of the population. Since many do not know what they think as they are brain-washed, deceived, ignorant, or just don't care, it might be a hard sell to convince them of the need for a strict, Consitutional adherance. So, even thought I voted for Peroutka and Baldwin, I think that most people still operate under the mistaken notion that there is a difference in the major political parties, which would make it even more difficult to convince them. So the question is, who is hearing this message and what would be the desired response? The main thrust of the Constitution Party is based upon God's truth, which is the only Truth, and we know that the majority of people will not receive His truth. People don't think anymore, they move like sheep and are thusly controlled by the poweres that be.

The result of a winner-take-all system is two political parties, and only two political parties, because a vote in favor of a third party actually is a vote for the person's least-desired choice.

[TimV]

Andersonville was suffering the same result from attrition as everyone around. Yeah, the Confederates were looking really plump compared to the "skin-and-bones survivors." Are you suggesting that the treatment of Union POWs in Andersonville similar to prisioners in Nazi concentration camps? Nonsense.

Assure me that you've read my post carefully and I will respond.

[h-bomb]

Assure me that you've read my post carefully and I will respond.
How can anything be compared to this
:(

Of the approximately 6 million Jews murdered in the Holocaust, more than half were systematically exterminated in the highly rationalized gas chamber/crematorium system of the Nazi Death Camps between 1942 and 1945. The names of Treblinka, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Dachau, Chelmno, Sobibor, Belzek and Majdanek are indelibly stamped on history. Following the Wannsee Conference in Berlin, January 20, 1942, the "Final Solution" was an official policy and a major obsession of the Nazi regime. It was at that point that camps were constructed for the express purpose of rational mass extermination, principally of Jews, but of other groups as well.

[TimV]

You didn't source that, it's wrong on at least two points and it has nothing to do with what I posted. You did not read my post with any understanding.

Auschwitz, as I posted had a much higher death rate than Andersonville, to the tune of about 55% more.

I will do the math for you if you want, but the numbers I gave only have two digits.

Auschwitz during much of it's time was primarily a slave labor camp, and even during 43-44 where most of the killings took place, rations were higher, sanitation was better and there was better shelter for the prisoners there, which was my point.

Glamorising or justifying conditions at Andersonville by saying things like "prisoners there had the same rations as Southern solders" or "Southern solders weren't exactly overweight" are just as bad as excusing conditions at Auschwitz.

[h-bomb]

You didn't source that, it's wrong on at least two points and it has nothing to do with what I posted. You did not read my post with any understanding.

Auschwitz, as I posted had a much higher death rate than Andersonville, to the tune of about 55% more.

I will do the math for you if you want, but the numbers I gave only have two digits.

Auschwitz during much of it's time was primarily a slave labor camp, and even during 43-44 where most of the killings took place, rations were higher, sanitation was better and there was better shelter for the prisoners there, which was my point.

Glamorising or justifying conditions at Andersonville by saying things like "prisoners there had the same rations as Southern solders" or "Southern solders weren't exactly overweight" are just as bad as excusing conditions at Auschwitz.
Sorry about that. THE TREATMENT OF THE JEWS CANNOT BE COMPARED TO ANY TREATMENT OF ANYONE IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND

[exmarine]

Auschwitz during much of it's time was primarily a slave labor camp, and even during 43-44 where most of the killings took place, rations were higher, sanitation was better and there was better shelter for the prisoners there, which was my point.


TimV's comparison had very little to defend in it. One had a higher death rate than the other. That tells us nothing about either.

I don't recall that the SS fed the jews (or Christians or Russians or slavs or gypsys) between the time they got off the train and the time they were led into the gas chambers to be killed. In '43 and '44 and '45, the majority of people (those who survived the boxcar ovens) who arrived at Auschwitz were led right to their deaths. There was no time for a meal. What a waste that would have been of precious Nazi resources! And Germans were nothing, if not efficient.

To the Nazis, jews were untermenschen (sub-human), but the Union soldiers were people according to the Confederates. In other words, the inmates at Andersonville were viewed as persons by their captors, while the inmates at Auschwitz were viewed as rats!

Ergo, I agree that TimV's comparison of Andersonville with Auschwitz is incongruous on its face. There are far more differences than similarities and I could go on and on. One was a prisoner-of-war camp where there was no concerted program of genocide, and the other was a high-tech killing center of the most satanic and vile imaginable, with the expressed aim of obliterating the jews.

While Wirz personally killed no one, Rudolf Hoess was known to personally kill many jews at Auschwitz. He was a murderer. He is also the one who installed the gas chambers.

During the Civil War, there was a blockade on the south and medicines were very hard to come by -- almost nonexistent in 1864/65. In addition, very little knowledge about bacteria and disease and sanitary conditions. In contrast, the Nazis knew quite well what they were doing and the effect that it had on people's bodies; and in fact, conducted the most torturous and evil experiments on children and pregnant women.

In short, there is NO Comparison between Andersonville and Auschwitz.

[KeepOurRepublic]

I agree that our leaders follow an international agenda rather than one that promotes a strong, autonomous United States. It has been going on for a long time. As far as history being rewritten, the international propagandists control almost all of the pop history that is being force-fed to the general public. Most people don't know that the same European bankers that owned the central bank that Andrew Jackson destroyed in the 1830's also financed both sides of the American Civil War, or more accurately, the War Between the States. August Belmont, the Rothschild banking agent for the south, arrived in this country the year after Jackson "killed the bank" and established himself as an aristocrat quite well in this country. He was made very rich for his efforts. The Belmont Stakes in the Kentucky Derby are named for him.
Do our leaders realize the course of disaster our country is taking due to their decisions? That I don't know. I think some of them do. It is treason, pure and simple.
Why do Americans sit back and do nothing? Maybe they don't want to believe it because it might require them to do something other than entertain themselves in their spare time.

[exmarine]

Do our leaders realize the course of disaster our country is taking due to their decisions? That I don't know. I think some of them do. It is treason, pure and simple.
Why do Americans sit back and do nothing? Maybe they don't want to believe it because it might require them to do something other than entertain themselves in their spare time.

Indeed. Good questions. I know one thing: Without God's protection, America is toast. No leader, no matter how good or able, can save us without God's supernatural protection. After seeing 911 and Katrina, and observing the inexplicable suicidal tendencies of our leaders, I musts wonder if that protection has already been lifted.

Congress reminds me of the Roman Senate, circa 49 B.C., right before the Republic disappeared forever and Rome got their first dictator. There are only a few that I respect (Tancredo, Paul to name two).

Ignorance and apathy. One thing is for sure: If the American people are not moral, then we can't expect our leaders to be moral, because in a Republic, the leaders always reflect the values of the people over the long-term. Scary thought! The American people remind me of the bread and circus mentality of decadent Rome, except Americans have better media to receive their sex and violence fixes. It's scary how many people I run into give me whose eyes glaze over when I bring up subjects like Liberty, government corruption, illegal immigration, our Christian heritage, our civil duty as Christians, etc. Our country is being destroyed by illegal immigration (including terrorist infiltration), pornography, gambling, and all forms of iniquity, yet the people act is if tomorrow will be the same as yesterday and all things will continue to go on as before. Linear thinking.

Jesus said, in the last day (just as in the days of Noah) that people will be buying, selling, marrying, etc. and destruction will suddenly come upon them. Clearly, things can change very abruptly, or even end. God's protection is absolutely essential. The Northern Kingdom of Israel was at the height of its prosperity when it was destroyed by the Assyrian Empire.

My prayer is that I will honor God in my own life and actions, and I will continue to pray for our nation, leaders and people.

[TimV]

Sorry about that. THE TREATMENT OF THE JEWS CANNOT BE COMPARED TO ANY TREATMENT OF ANYONE IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND

Utter rot. Even holocaust historians will tell you that nazi treatment of Gypsies was of the same nature. There are many other examples.

[TimV]

I don't recall that the SS fed the jews (or Christians or Russians or slavs or gypsys) between the time they got off the train and the time they were led into the gas chambers to be killed.

You don't recall because you've never read anything factual about the subject.

In '43 and '44 and '45, the majority of people (those who survived the boxcar ovens) who arrived at Auschwitz were led right to their deaths.

In '45? The Russians were in charge there from January of that year. :rolleyes:

Ergo, I agree that TimV's comparison of Andersonville with Auschwitz is incongruous on its face. There are far more differences than similarities and I could go on and on. One was a prisoner-of-war camp where there was no concerted program of genocide, and the other was a high-tech killing center of the most satanic and vile imaginable, with the expressed aim of obliterating the jews.

Non sequitur. I was comparing living conditions, nothing else. And PS, Russians are Slavs. Duh.

[Mike]

YOU...had better research the INQUISITION! up to the present... http://Vaticanassassins.org My people ARE destroyed for lack of knowledge...Hosea 4:6

[TimV]

Mike, I didn't give your name as the author of that tripe you sent me, but now perhaps even "Patriot" will apologize to me, or at least take remedial reading lessons.

Mike, you are brainwashed. The Roman Catholic Church isn't secretly in control of our government. Start a thread instead of lurking in the shadows.

[exmarine]

You don't recall because you've never read anything factual about the subject.

In '45? The Russians were in charge there from January of that year. :rolleyes:

Non sequitur. I was comparing living conditions, nothing else. And PS, Russians are Slavs. Duh.

I don't feel a need to defend my education or knowledge to you. I am not cowed by your insults -- I have an entire historical library full of reference material. I will just stick to the FACTS.

Regarding your first point, so, are you denying that a big percentage of the jews were taken off the trains straight to the gas chambers? Or are you saying they were fed first? FACT: In 1944, out of >400,000 Hungarian jews sent to Auschwitz, 75% went to their deaths immediately. That's just Hungarian Jews? (WW II, A short History - Michael J. Lyons).

Your point 2: A non-point. Camp was liberated on 27 Jan. 45 - that's 26 days in 45 that Jews were being killed, thus, my original statement was accurate. The point stands - Auschwitz was a hi-tech killing center. Period. Andersonville was not. "Living conditions" - the very term is an oxymoron (and the use of it is moronic) when applied to Auschwitz. it was a genocidal death factory like which the world had never known -- you can't compare that with a much smaller 19th century prisoner of war camp in the South where there was a dearth of everything and the citizens themselves were all suffering from want.

Your Point 3: 'ag Your comparison is apples and oranges. Different era, different country, different conditions, different purpose for the camp, far different results. I can certainly see how a Holocaust survivor would be offended by your comparison, and I see at least one other person on this thread took affront to your comparison. But, I think we have learned by now that tact and sensitivity are not your strong points.

Here is your assignment: Go on Google and find out how many people were murdered in Auschwitz vs. how many died at Andersonville. Then, post the numbers here. Then, we can all see the ridiculousness of your comparing percentages rather than number of deaths!

BTW, Russians were also bolsheviks (who Hitler hated) and many were captured Red Army, not just ordinary slavs to the Germans.

[TimV]

But, I think we have learned by now that tact and sensitivity are not your strong points.

Quite whining, and looking for friends. Only drooling idiots want Mecca to be nuked. Drooling idiots like you.

Here is your assignment: Go on Google and find out how many people were murdered in Auschwitz

Consensus middle numbers are about 800 thousand now days.

BTW, Russians were also bolsheviks (who Hitler hated) and many were captured Red Army, not just ordinary slavs to the Germans.

Another totally meaningless statement.

What meds are you on? Be honest. And why are you responding to me after your word (of honor, as if that applies to you) that you wouldn't talk to me?

[exmarine]

Quite whining, and looking for friends. Only drooling idiots want Mecca to be nuked. Drooling idiots like you.



Consensus middle numbers are about 800 thousand now days.



Another totally meaningless statement.

What meds are you on? Be honest. And why are you responding to me after your word (of honor, as if that applies to you) that you wouldn't talk to me?

Your ad hominems are exposing your serious lack of ability to conduct an intellectual discussion, and also indicates a low vocabulary. Please keep it up...you are hanging yourself.

I changed my mind when I saw how namecalling is your m.o. no matter who you exchange with. I give it a month before you will have insulted just about everyone in this forum. I decided someone has to oppose your belligerent presence here. Might as well be me (must be my USMC training).

800,000...hmm...okay that sounds about right. Now, how many at Andersonville?

Again, why do you use this forum again? You do not have the American View. So, why are you here?

[wmgreene]

In fact, Michael A. Peroutka didn't mention it but when baby Bush was born a State Issued Birth Certificate was issued relative to his birth. That means he is a US Citizen rather than an American Citizen, because to be registered as an American Citizen one must have a County Issued Birth Certificate rather than the State Issued through the County.

Check it out. Prove me wrong. You'll find out. It all went over my head for soo long. For example, during the Viet Nam war, during the induction phase every once in a while someone would come in with a County Issued Birth Certificate. The standard phrase was "ok, so you got one of the good ones, but it doesn’t matter now, after which they were sworn in as US Citizens, issued a social security number, and told they were government property now".

I didn't realize what was going on because I thought we were government property because we joined the Army. Now I know better. And, if you take the time to research the subject you will find out that Bush is a US Citizen, the property of the US Corporation.

Blessings,
Bill

[TimV]

Again, why do you use this forum again? You do not have the American View. So, why are you here?

To be a voice of reason against culture traitors who advocate nuking Mecca. Like you.

Quit bringing up your true or not true Marine background. I am a 220 pound 4 time All American in Wrestling and if you think you are impressing me you are sadly mistaken. My last All American award was a coaches choice NCAA Division One. The fact that I spent much of my life teaching literacy and agriculture to less advantaged people in three different Continents doesn't make me any less patriotic than you.

[exmarine]

To be a voice of reason against culture traitors who advocate nuking Mecca. Like you.

Quit bringing up your true or not true Marine background. I am a 220 pound 4 time All American in Wrestling and if you think you are impressing me you are sadly mistaken. My last All American award was a coaches choice NCAA Division One. The fact that I spent much of my life teaching literacy and agriculture to less advantaged people in three different Continents doesn't make me any less patriotic than you.

Ahh, more namecalling...what do you suppose those read this are thinking about your incessant namecalling and lack of substance in your arguments? Do you suppose you are winning friends and influencing people?

So, you came to American View forum because you wanted to attack people you disagree with...is that how I am to decode your latest ad hominem?

Regarding your NCAA wrestling background, you left quite an opening there, but I will resist the temptation to seize upon it.

[TimV]

Ahh, more namecalling...what do you suppose those read this are thinking about your incessant namecalling and lack of substance in your arguments? Do you suppose you are winning friends and influencing people?

No, but I think that lurkers with an IQ of above 70 think that you are a drooling idiot for advocating nuking Mecca.

So, you came to American View forum because you wanted to attack people you disagree with...is that how I am to decode your latest ad hominem?

Well, you could just answer me. Sorry to be so complicated.

Regarding your NCAA wrestling background, you left quite an opening there, but I will resist the temptation to seize upon it.

By all means do it.

[exmarine]

No, but I think that lurkers with an IQ of above 70 think that you are a drooling idiot for advocating nuking Mecca.



ISo, how many died at Andersonville?

[Jaime]

Andersonville was a POW camp that far exceeded its capacity because the North stopped soldier exchanges and refused to allow medicines to go through the blockade or to be sent to treat Union soldiers.

Why?

To make the Union POWs in Confederate camps a burden on the Confederates, to dry resources from the Southern people, as a war policy of the North.

The deaths and appaling conditions in places like Andersonville were worst than it should have been because the Union made the soldiers into a different type of cannon fodder. Like in South Carolina, when the Yankees placed Confederate POWs in front as "human shields," Union POW conditions in the South were abandoned by the North to be a slow drain on resources.

The Confederate POWs in Northern camps suffered from deliberate decisions to let the POWs starve or freeze.

[TimV]

Yes, 29 out of every 100 people who entered Andersonville died, but it was all the North's fault.

If you had any idea of the arguments nazi apologists use do defend the high death rates in camps like Bergen Belsen (which are identical to yours) you would be embarrassed.

The trick is to stand back, be objective and not let emotion get in the way.

I've been to South African camps where the British murdered a large percentage of the Boer race's children, and even there, where the camps are called Death Camps in Afrikaans there was an approximately 4 percentage points lower death rate.

The Prussian Commandant at Andersonville was a war criminal, just like Milner, Kitchener and Hoess. (although he wasn't tortured into signing a false confession like Hoess) (or lauded as a hero like Kitchener).

[Frank Conner]

Mr. Peroutka,

I thought that the point of your column, "...Because They Are Not Americans," was stunningly simple, direct, and accurate.

[h-bomb]

[QUOTE=Frank Conner]Mr. Peroutka,

I thought that the point of your column, "...Because They Are Not Americans," was stunningly simple, direct, and accurate.[/QUOTE

Dont overlook this :
The North did not like the Indians too well. Even though abolitionist where screaming for blacks to be set free I have yet to here an abolitionist from that time period support the rights of Native Americans. The Confederacy recruited some black soldiers and Cherokee also. The Union only allowed blacks in there ranks toward the end of the war.

Most people over look the fact that the Union Army went out west and chased the Souix out from there sacred land for gold. Custer was very opressive towards Native Americans. So before you start throughing stones about blacks being slaves think about the Native Americans that where mistreated. Also lets not forget how the Confederate POW's where forced to fight for the Union Army against the Native Americans, not to say that some Confederates wouldn't willing shoot the Indians if they had a chance, but we will never know because they where forced to fight.
-

[Jaime]

I do not say that in the case in example, Andersonville, was all the North's fault. I guess that the Confederacy could have diverted foodstuff from front lines, or civilians, to feed the Union POWs. Or perhaps the Confederacy could have freed the Union POWs en masse. The kind of goal the North deliberately pursued. No, it was not the Union's fault but they bear the heavier side of the burden.

I have not been emotional and saying so will not change the argument.

At bottom line, the States, all of them, have the retained authority to secede. Any forcible impediment was an unlawfull act and a sin.

[DixieCol]

Jaime, one point I would like to make regarding your statement in your post:

"To make the Union POWs in Confederate camps a burden on the Confederates, to dry resources from the Southern people, as a war policy of the North."

Gen. U.S. Grant also stated that he thought it was pointless to trade Confederate P.O.W.s for U.S. P.O.W.'s because the North had a much greater reserve of manpower than did the South, and by trading P.O.W.s, the North was permitting the South to replenish its manpower losses with repatriated P.O.W.s; therefore, he felt that swapping P.O.W.s was more advantageous to the South than to the North.

Your point was also correct, but Gen. Grant specifically mentioned the reason I stated above.