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cryptakeys
17th August 2005, 10:50
I am a new member here and this is my first post. After its reading here, it may be my last since I am assuming that any "objectionable" post is one that does not agree strictly with the opinions of the Site owners.
I became aware of the existence of the Constitution Party about a year ago and, subsequently, of The American View. At that time, I was highly impressed with the moral stance that appeared to be presented, since I know that we are living in a godless society and that this country desperately needs a return to fundamental values and the morality intended by the Founders.
As time has passed and I have received more and more mailings from the organizations, I have become increasingly disillusioned with what I've seen in the electronic mailings that I've received as well as in some things that I'm reading here. I have read so many open and almost violent attacks on individuals and organizations - on the thoughts and opinions of these people, on their values and moral qualities - and all this malevolence, in my opinion, is the anthesis of what the Bible intends for us as Christians. What ever happened to "love thy neighbor as thyself"? I know that the other cheek has been turned for far too long and that God himself was inspired to wrath on more than one occasion, but vengance belongs to God - not to us as humans, regardless of who or what we represent or how right we are in our positions. It would seem to me that in the midst of all this righteous indignation and moral outrage, the views expressed so harshly simply lower those who commit the attacks to the same moral standing as those who commit the moral outrages. No sin is greater or lesser than another in the eyes of God. And who can benefit from publicly attacking another person to promote Godly morals and values? It is my firm belief that the best leadership is leadership by example - and what example do these open attacks portray to the unsaved, immoral public? That they can call themselves Christians and then go around verbally abusing others for having the wrong opinion?
Jesus forgave all those who asked Him, healed all those who touched Him - according to the Bible, He spoke His words to the unsaved around Him with patience and forbearing and His attitude at all times was one of love and peace. How can we lead an unclean world back to these principles with hatred and anger? Answer: we can't. Hatred and anger breed hatred and anger...and the Bible specifically teaches us through Christ's example that hatred is not morally acceptable for any man. Be angry and sin not, right?
I am strongly opposed to homosexuality, to abortion, to liberal "bleeding hearts" forcing their trashy, immoral opinions down my throat everywhere I turn. I am sick of being continually confronted by the moral decay of our country and our not-so-civil civilization. I am sick to death of the government that refuses to allow my children to pray in school if they choose to, to a government that is so afraid of what the liberals might think that it bends and bows to their every ridiculous demand - giving lawful rights to groups that deserve none and committing a host of other atrocities against its citizens. Roe v. Wade is, without question, one of the most abhorrent laws that has ever crossed the books - I agree that a woman has a choice...but the choice is whether to keep her pants on or to take them off and once that choice is made then the consequences are hers to deal with on a lifetime basis. I know that abortion is simply state-sanctioned murder. But even with all these things, I know that I can stand up publicly for what I believe in and what is morally right in the eyes of God without verbally bashing everyone who disagrees with me, without attacking other human beings, without promoting hate or anger in those around me.
Where is our patience and forbearance? Where is our desire to educate and encourage people in the service of God and to the return of our government and our country to appropriate and Godly moral values? I just can't understand why there is so much violence expressed by a group that is supposed to represent Christian values and carry them to the world. It deeply saddens me.

jtw
17th August 2005, 11:46
I am a new member here and this is my first post. After its reading here, it may be my last since I am assuming that any "objectionable" post is one that does not agree strictly with the opinions of the Site owners.

...

Where is our patience and forbearance? Where is our desire to educate and encourage people in the service of God and to the return of our government and our country to appropriate and Godly moral values? I just can't understand why there is so much violence expressed by a group that is supposed to represent Christian values and carry them to the world. It deeply saddens me.

Cryptakeys,

I must agree with you for you are absolutely correct and if they kick you off this forum they must kick me off as well. Love is what sets us apart from animals and Love is the greatest. I realize that I may be one of the posters to which you are speaking. Regardless, we need you and your breed here in these forums and in the Constitution Party. I apologize to you and everyone else if any of my posts have not shown love towards even Mr. and Mrs. Clinton. They deserve our love as well as George W. Bush and all the illegal aliens put together. Does that mean I want them to continue streaming across and stressing our economic system? No it doesn't and what they are doing, crossing into our land illegally, is wrong. While we must have love in our hearts for all people we must also have love in our hearts for America which was founded under God's principles. If law abiding people wish to be Americans then they should not enter our country illegally. Entering our country illegally may very well be indicative that they will not adhere to God's laws either. However I do agree with you wholeheartedly in that bad-mouthing them or anyone else goes against God. We should all refrain from spewing forth such venom.

Sincerely,
Ty

NealStanley
17th August 2005, 12:29
First Christiians should express their opinions on issues and voice disagreement when leaders act improperly just as Jeremiah did with countless leaders in his time. Now we should be loyal to our country and support our leaders whether we agree or not so long as they are consistant with the God's will(his word).

By the way, I agree that our rhetoric is too vitriolic at times and we should try to temper this. I disagree that you should leave just because others disagree with you. Christians are to be a light to the world, if we just leave, then we aren't being a good light. We are leaving the those who need the light.

I also am very troubled by those who are so very anti President Clinton and then give President Bush a pass due to the fact "at least he isn't as bad as Clinton."

Very well just thought I would add my 2 cents.

jtw
17th August 2005, 12:45
...

I also am very troubled by those who are so very anti President Clinton and then give President Bush a pass due to the fact "at least he isn't as bad as Clinton."

...



Boy you got that right (no I'm not calling you a boy :D ).

I have to ask myself if we would be that much worse off with Kerry. At this point I don't think we would be any worse off and I was actually pulling for Kerry this last election. I wanted people to realize that there wouldn't have been that much difference between the two.

Mr. Clinton on the other hand was despicable as a President and should have been impeached not once, but twice.

Take care,
Ty

Jaime
17th August 2005, 01:27
Private transgressions are to be handled in private, follwing Mathew 18.

Public statements, pronouncements, that expouse a point of view are to be challenged (if they are to be challenged at all) in public, since that's arena where the error was promulgated and correctoin must be done in the same arena. The error is the point that must be attacked.

Foul language, ad hominem attacks are not allowed (Ephesians 4:29).

Jesus and John the Baptist used very strong language when confronting the Pharisees but did not use foul language. Warnings (forth-telling and fore-telling) were employed as to what a course of action or belief would lead into.

Remember, also, to be angry and sin not (Ephesians 4:26).

And always, always, the goal is restoration among the bretheren.

jtw
17th August 2005, 01:35
And always, always, the goal is restoration among the bretheren.

Thank you very much. We Christians must stick together and do as the Lord says... or try with all our might to uphold his laws. As for me I sure am glad I can ask his forgiveness for I know I am not perfect.

Ty :)

Triton
17th August 2005, 08:48
I think you may be confusing hatred of evil - which is Godly hatred - with hatred of those who become tools of said evil. This is not Godly.

The ignorant, uneducated populace was never the target of my vitriole, and I never understood that to be the case with anyone else here. The voting public will act as a mob whenever given the chance. The founders knew this.

That being said, WE ARE AT WAR. The body count is over 40 million, and the Enemy has succeeded in a diabolical deception: right is wrong, wrong is right, up is down, left is right. The perpetrators of this scheme are liberal educators, physicians, and politicians. These are more than "tools of evil". They know better - and yet they spread their lies. THAT is hatred. Speaking the truth is not hatred - babies, torn limb from limb while STILL ALIVE - THAT is hatred. Liberal teachers telling your children that it's OK to engage in sodomy - THAT is hatred. Physicians telling your children that they need birth control or anti-depressants - THAT is hatred. Politicians telling poor people that they need the government to feed them - THAT is hatred. Tyrannical "Federal" courts telling state courthouses that they cannot have the Ten Commandments on their premises - THAT is evil.

By and large, what we do here is out of love for our God and for the people and the country that evil seeks to destroy. The old cliche "war is hell" is an apt one; talk of such war is seldom much more pleasant.

truthman
24th August 2005, 01:10
I am a new member here and this is my first post. After its reading here, it may be my last since I am assuming that any "objectionable" post is one that does not agree strictly with the opinions of the Site owners.
I became aware of the existence of the Constitution Party about a year ago and, subsequently, of The American View. At that time, I was highly impressed with the moral stance that appeared to be presented, since I know that we are living in a godless society and that this country desperately needs a return to fundamental values and the morality intended by the Founders.
As time has passed and I have received more and more mailings from the organizations, I have become increasingly disillusioned with what I've seen in the electronic mailings that I've received as well as in some things that I'm reading here. I have read so many open and almost violent attacks on individuals and organizations - on the thoughts and opinions of these people, on their values and moral qualities - and all this malevolence, in my opinion, is the anthesis of what the Bible intends for us as Christians. What ever happened to "love thy neighbor as thyself"? I know that the other cheek has been turned for far too long and that God himself was inspired to wrath on more than one occasion, but vengance belongs to God - not to us as humans, regardless of who or what we represent or how right we are in our positions. It would seem to me that in the midst of all this righteous indignation and moral outrage, the views expressed so harshly simply lower those who commit the attacks to the same moral standing as those who commit the moral outrages. No sin is greater or lesser than another in the eyes of God. And who can benefit from publicly attacking another person to promote Godly morals and values? It is my firm belief that the best leadership is leadership by example - and what example do these open attacks portray to the unsaved, immoral public? That they can call themselves Christians and then go around verbally abusing others for having the wrong opinion?
Jesus forgave all those who asked Him, healed all those who touched Him - according to the Bible, He spoke His words to the unsaved around Him with patience and forbearing and His attitude at all times was one of love and peace. How can we lead an unclean world back to these principles with hatred and anger? Answer: we can't. Hatred and anger breed hatred and anger...and the Bible specifically teaches us through Christ's example that hatred is not morally acceptable for any man. Be angry and sin not, right?
I am strongly opposed to homosexuality, to abortion, to liberal "bleeding hearts" forcing their trashy, immoral opinions down my throat everywhere I turn. I am sick of being continually confronted by the moral decay of our country and our not-so-civil civilization. I am sick to death of the government that refuses to allow my children to pray in school if they choose to, to a government that is so afraid of what the liberals might think that it bends and bows to their every ridiculous demand - giving lawful rights to groups that deserve none and committing a host of other atrocities against its citizens. Roe v. Wade is, without question, one of the most abhorrent laws that has ever crossed the books - I agree that a woman has a choice...but the choice is whether to keep her pants on or to take them off and once that choice is made then the consequences are hers to deal with on a lifetime basis. I know that abortion is simply state-sanctioned murder. But even with all these things, I know that I can stand up publicly for what I believe in and what is morally right in the eyes of God without verbally bashing everyone who disagrees with me, without attacking other human beings, without promoting hate or anger in those around me.
Where is our patience and forbearance? Where is our desire to educate and encourage people in the service of God and to the return of our government and our country to appropriate and Godly moral values? I just can't understand why there is so much violence expressed by a group that is supposed to represent Christian values and carry them to the world. It deeply saddens me.Wow, all that talk about the Bible and Jesus and not one scripture reference. How could I possible begin to debate you when you've given no foundation other than your own personal beliefs.

That's postmodernism at its best ~ Stating opinions based on feelings, not facts.

truthman

Flick
24th August 2005, 01:28
Wow, all that talk about the Bible and Jesus and not one scripture reference. How could I possible begin to debate you when you've given no foundation other than your own personal beliefs.

That's postmodernism at its best ~ Stating opinions based on feelings, not facts.

truthman
If what he has stated is his own personal belief, why do you feel the need to debate it? Must one's feelings be based on facts? If I said that to my wife, she probably feel pretty hurt and not talk to me for a week. :eek:

truthman
24th August 2005, 02:06
If what he has stated is his own personal belief, why do you feel the need to debate it? Must one's feelings be based on facts? If I said that to my wife, she probably feel pretty hurt and not talk to me for a week. :eek:This is a public forum, discussion and debate is expected. You can't post something and just hope everybody reads it. To really grow strong in your beliefs, they need to be challenged to see if they 'hold water'.

And yes, feelings must be based on facts when it comes to absolute matters like judging the actions of others. We need an external source of truth (i.e. the Bible), not an internal source of truth (i.e. my feelings).

For instance, cryptakeys feels that we shouldn't judge others harshly. That's only an opinion. What does God say about it? If cryptakeys wants to provide some Biblical truth to the matter, then I would be able to respond better.

truthman